My quads get sore towards the end of marathons too. Not sure what the solution is. More long runs (or more mpw) so that they get used to that kind of use? Weight training to strengthen the quads? Dunno really...

What was the profile like on those two marathons, if there was a lot of downhill then that would explain the condition of your quads.

Otherwise id start off by following Johns advice about getting some medical advice.

Then id look at lots of hilly running both up and down to strengthen your quads up... and increasing millage to make them better able to withstand the pounding of longer runs.

Rob, on your hill training, you should concentrate on the downhills as much as the uphills. On almost every hill session I've witnessed, runners run up the hill, and then use the downhill to recover - but in the race itself they charge downhill and mash up their quads.

For a race with lots of downhills, you should reverse this training. ie, walk up the hill as your recovery, and run hard(ish) down. But concentrate on your style so you are leaning slightly forward and not overstriding and braking (as per advice above from JPH). If you don't put the brakes on, it's surprising how fast you can run - top fell runners can do sub 3 minute miles!! Weirdly it is thus easier on the legs the quicker you go downhill, as you are letting gravity do the work.

I've run the Comrades down run, and there are plenty of ups there as well, so you can't neglect that aspect. Two other things that will help you:-

1) If you have access to one, do some long runs with the treadmill at a steep gradient. Eg, 10% incline, with the speed at only 8-10 kph. Will feel slow but will be better for you than banging out long flat miles.
2) Again if you have access, use a stepping machine for great hill training.

I've done the UTMB quite a few times as well as many mountain races, and it is the stepper, incline treadmill and reverse hill training that give me as much benefit as bashing out 100 miles a week on the roads.

Horses for courses I suppose. Good luck.

It could be a cause Ed, but also the fact that the terrain doesn't change in Berlin and you are repeating the same stride pattern for the complete marathon can really effect some people.

Doing some single leg quad strengthening exercises will elp this, but also ensuring that your stride is balanced, and that all the running muscles are active.

Just ran my first marathon and got quad pain at about 30km which got worse and worse as the run progressed (although it probably only cost me 10-15 s/km). Once I finished and the adrenaline stopped I was in such pain I had to lie down and it took half an hour before I could move again. I've run further than this in training, including lots of up and down hills, and never experienced this type of pain. It was a relatively flat marathon, so maybe it was the repetitive nature of every step that led to the problem. Has anyone had any success with strengthening quads (or other muscles) or changing gait to avoid this problem?

Jon-paul,
"you will have an overload on the quads, as you are consistantly loading the same muscles through the same movements."

Will this not apply to all the muscle groups as well? ( hamstrings, hip flecked, gastrocnemious). Why only the quads? There still must be a reason why it's the quads and not somewhere else.

Cheers
John

It is mainly due to the impact of landing that is largely absorbed in our quads. The more neutral the landing the more effecient the running and the less stress that goes through the muscle.

The calves and Tibilias Anterior (shin muscle) also absorb some of this energy, but because the majority of runners do not use their calf muscles as much, and no where near as much load goes through the TA they either don't fatigue as much or it is not as noticable.

Sometimes in the marathons they show great slow motion shots of the runners from in front and you can watch the muscle ripple and move as they hit the ground and then move forward. This initial impact is extra work that the quads have to do. As I said earlier on an up and down course the quads get a little break when we are changing the gradient we run on. For example when we run downhill correctly we use the Hamstrings more and this loosens up the quads a little.

The are a few studies where they measured the muscles in use during running and their load, and when they measured good runners every muscle was active, but the quads played a larger part.

In terms of the hip flexors and the hamstrings that is another solution to reducing quad pain. If the Hamstrings are more active we can increase our stride ride which can help prevent overstriding, as we tend to take shorter strides at a higher rate to maintain the speed. Our hip flexors should also be active, but because generally we are not driving our knees up they are not doing the same volume of work as the other muscles. If you had to run up a 3km with a 12% gradient using a lot of knee lift then you would notice pain and fatigue in the hipflexors, but in running they are making a smaller lift.

I hope I explained this ok, but it would be easier if it was visual, so maybe I should do some more videos to put up on my site to explain it.